General

This is the place for general occupyseattle discussion.

35 Responses to General

  • Andy the web guy says:

    What topics do we want for the forum?

    • Anne Hirsch says:

      I wrote an email and suggest that others do to. I wrote to the Mayor. Here is his email mike.mcginn@seattle.gov Here is what I said.
      Dear Mr. McGinn
      I am very disappointed in your stance about the protestors in the WA park. This country was founded on descent against oppression. Now the people are finally standing up against oppression from the greedy top 1%. This country was founded on the right to free speech and freedom of assembly.

      These people and I pay your salary, they pay for the park, they pay the salaries of the police who arrested them. They and we have a right to be there.

      I am new to Seattle. I work here now – I’m one of the lucky people who still have employment. I plan to be at the protest some of the time when I am not working.

      I urge you to allow freedom of assembly in the park at any hour, any day.

    • Anne Hirsch says:

      I wrote an email and suggest that others do to. I wrote to the Mayor. Here is his email mike.mcginn@seattle.gov Here is what I said.
      Dear Mr. McGinn
      I am very disappointed in your stance about the protestors in the WA park. This country was founded on descent against oppression. Now the people are finally standing up against oppression from the greedy top 1%. This country was founded on the right to free speech and freedom of assembly.

      These people and I pay your salary, they pay for the park, they pay the salaries of the police who arrested them. They and we have a right to be there.

      I am new to Seattle. I work here now – I’m one of the lucky people who still have employment. I plan to be at the protest some of the time when I am not working.

      I urge you to allow freedom of assembly in the park at any hour, any day.

  • Andy the web guy says:

    Should we do at least working groups?

    • Alex says:

      Andy, I am an admin on the ICT fb page for occupyseattle. I think that is a useful tool but certainly for other working groups and people involved who do not know about the FB stuff going on that forums for each working group would be a useful tool.

      • Ryan says:

        Huzzah, forums! how much time do you want to get it all organized before I tweet it?

      • internetjen says:

        Should facebook mods put in an effort to centralize the discussion within the forums and then use facebook to PR/Promote green-lighted actions & accomplishments.

  • Alexander Williamson says:

    Hey i really sympathize with everyone getting arrested and pushed around, but we need to be careful about the accusations of police brutality of abuse. It’s like the boy who cried wolf. When it actually happens people will be desensitized and our movement will have a tarnished credibility. Now i know most of you havent been throwing that term around and i thank you all for that, but for those people who are; please stop. The police and rangers are “just doing their jobs” which you dont have to agree with even, but i think they have shown pretty good restraint thus far. This is nothing like WTO or even iraq war protests in the past when rubber bullets, CS spray, tear gas, pepper spray/mace and possibly worst…batons were used to injure people. We are choosing to break laws…yes i know that we should have 1st amendment rights, but its debatable what that means exactly and we have to take it all in stride. At least we are not being beaten and imprisoned or killed like in other countries. If you choose to use civil disobedience then you choose to face possible arrest, harassment and if you are really unlucky… burning eyes. This is all part of the sacrifice we (I) choose to make for this cause and is why we should be respected. but we shouldnt complain and get verbally abusive to police because of this. If youve been involved in civil disobedience in the past, you know that this is all to be expected, and thus far iam impressed at the restraint we’ve seen, honestly. Police are the 99% as well, they are tired and have feelings just like everyone else, lets try and respect that until we are given an individual reason not to. Sorry about this rant, but i just think maybe people who are new to the protesting culture may be a bit sensitive or prone to exaggerate and this cause needs all the legitamacy and integrity we can get in order to grow and include all factions within the general public. like it or not the media picks up on drug use, ” liberal hippie clothing and dread locks” and claims of police brutality and runs with them as headlines. Im not judging anyone…(i look like a hippie hehe) but im just saying we need to be aware of this and we need to be strategically intelligent if we want this to be a long term exponentially expanding movement. Thanks, peace, love and respect everyone.

    • Nobody Important says:

      Rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights cannot be superseded bu any Federal, State, County or other municipal code/law. If you think the Right to Peaceably Assemble is in contradiction to the order to vacate then I would check the case law on this for Washington and/or the US Supreme Court.

      If case law supports occupying public lands, which I believe it does with the exception of impeding access to services and/or businesses then I would stand and be arrested. When the numbers permit, the SPD will attempt to cite and release. At this time I would refuse to sign any citation.

      It all comes down to numbers and reporting. Who does the city want in jail, murderers, rapist or protesters?

  • Kevin Castle says:

    I celebrate what you are doing and all of your efforts. But I agree with the last post mainly because I don’t think think we want to muddy the waters. One of the lessons of Tahrir Square is to stay on message. Focusing on “Mubarak Go! they united a whole nation of opponents and won. Locating yourselves in the 99% keeps our base broad. The more we start claiming other issues the more people we lose.

    • Michu says:

      Providing living wage jobs should be the number one demand. I for one lost my part time job and my life started crumbling down the path to destitution. Without any assistance from the government, I moved back to my older parents who are also struggling to survive. Creating jobs for the unemployed provides us the key to independence, access to health care, etc.

      • Nobody Important says:

        If the demands were replaced with methods to achieve the ends that secured the demands it might be worth considering.

        Removing the Lobbyist from Washington.
        Removing Constitutional Rights for businesses and Corporations
        Removing all loopholes for taxation

        For taxes personally I would like to see all deductions removed, yes we own two houses and write offs because of them but I would gladly give that up to see a level playing field.

        A flat tax with no deductions.

  • Ralph Henderson says:

    Right on Alex and Kevin. When I’m out in the rain holding up a sign at Westlake it’s on behalf of the families of the police too. This police brutality rally business is totally divisive. “Keep your eyes on the prize” and it’s Wall Street.

    • Marcus says:

      Strangling each other for a piece of pie, just cause they tell us to dance. It’s easy to be infuriated when the cogs don’t see that they’re cogs. They want their livelihood. We all do. But don’t be a puppet! Be a human. Humans win.

      • Nobody Important says:

        Greetings and Salutations,

        Police are officers of the Court and as such are required to conduct themselves accordingly. The problem is that some Police Officers do not know that they are Officers of the Court, some Police Officers don’t actually know the law, the legal rights of the individual or will do stupid things in a lame attempt to defuse the situation.

        This is not a judgment of Police Officers because where I reside we work with the Police to solve our problems and you can do the same with Occupy Seattle.

        These Police Officers have spouses and families just like we do and they share the same concerns. Talk with the Officers and treat them with courtesy and respect. Have them join the occupation when they are off duty.

        These Police Officers are your friends and neighbors.

  • Michelle Darnell says:

    Over the course of the last three years our family has been struggling to survive. My husband career is in construction and his basically died in October of 2008. He and I now work 6-7 days a week to maintain a simple lifestyle and raise our 4 children.
    Currently we perform property preservation services. Basically we process foreclosed homes. This has been an eye opener!! We go into homes where the previous owner basically walk out with his/shoes. They have lost everything.
    We are in a recession if you still have a job; we are in a depression if you dont! It is time for America to wake up!!! The greed of Wallstreet and big money has bankrupted our country and the politicians facilitated it!!
    While I do not agree with every aspect of this movement, I do believe in the basic premise that this country needs some imediate change in leadership.
    I would caution leaders of this movement wo be careful not to marginalize themselves by presenting unrealistic or even ridiculous demands. Keep the movement legitimate. For example abolishing the DEA is sort of ridiculous and such a notion will imediately give the impression that participants are a bunch of wackos.
    Get organized, stay on point and select a small group of representatives that present well, to be the “face” of the movement. If you really want to make a change and be credible accross the masses you must conduct and intellegent well organized plan. You have an audience. I dont think your basic concept is far from what the Tea Party movement is about…imagine if the two were united!!! What out America. It is time to “Throw the rascals out!!”

  • JUSTICE says:

    I think that it would be great to have a forum for each working group. There are several people in this movement that are working and can’t make it to the park at 4PM to be in a working group. I can only be there at 4 on Friday, Saturday and Sunday and am there by 5 PM M-Th but want to be involved. I would like to be able to give my input and can’t access facebook at work except through my phone so this and twitter are the only ways I am interact until I leave work for the day.

  • PlsSvAmrca says:

    I support your movement to this point and hope to in the future. Comments above urging reasonable, consistent demands and respectful cooperation with the authorities ring true to me.

    I just returned from Las Vegas and observed their march last Thursday. They had full cooperation with police and the casinos after meeting with them and agreeing on behavioral ground rules. (free access to casino restrooms so long as no masks nor signs came into the casinos, police managed traffic for everyone’s safety as long as marchers respected the tourist trade upon which their jobs and future depend, etc.)

    I’m part of the 99%, but also part of the top 5%. The real power appears to me to lie above my pay grade. I depend on investments to survive in my retirement. I don’t mind paying my share of taxes, it means I’ve arrived and make money. Recently I’ve paid little tax because the corporations tend not to share the earnings they’ve amassed into offshore accounts. That’s in the interest of the 1% who want to amass wealth and power, not people in my position, and certainly not the other 95%.

  • Parker East says:
  • Corey says:

    I like that last statement, “i pledge alliegance to the constitution.” really what the 99 percent want is control of the constitution…it determines the form and content of our national politics. We the People Party!

    • PlsSvAmrca says:

      Corey,
      I think we are in agreement. My signature reflects my belief that The US Constitution gives us the only hope of regaining equality. It needs change right now, giving “The People” back our country. Historically, corporations had a limited life span and limited rights to go along with their limited liability (i.e. limited responsibility). That has evolved to what we now have, corporations controlling corporations, shells within shells of anonymous entities to hide the few who actually control most aspects of our lives.

      If we agree, I am glad. If we disagree, I respect the difference and welcome exercise of the First Ammendment.

  • Cope says:

    Having gone to the GA tonight, I can definitely say that while it’s nice that things are attempting to be done in a procedural, clear manner, the snail’s pace at which they move kills the momentum and passion of the crowd.

    Why not, instead of having the crowd have to shout everything back, just have a megaphone. Maybe the idea is to keep people engaged by having them echo all the words, but the toll it takes on the pace, and consequently the enthusiasm of the crowd, is too great. Hopefully the process will be expedited in the future, and thus avoid all the housekeeping that isn’t necessary for each participant to opine on.

    • internetJen says:

      They need one in NYC, that is why they have to use the peoples mic. I do not know if it’s the same here in Seattle, or if it’s just monkey see monkey do.

      • Power to the People! says:

        Hi Jen- Good question. I spoke with the process group this evening about allowing speakers the option to use megaphones. Please bring this up as a suggestion at the next GA. I think there are some who feel the peoples mike gives a sense of solidarity. Hope this is helpful…..

  • Buzz says:

    I posted earlier here but it’s disappeared. You’d think that with only 19 comments in a week, the moderators/censors wouldn’t be so quick to delete things. (It was a really good comment too.)

  • Woody says:

    Hey, whers everybody meting today? I’m looking 4 something to tap tonite. SUPPORT THE MOVEMENT!!!!!!!

  • Kaicie says:

    I herd there was pizza??? wat kind? Or doritos? I’m kinda broke but got muchies bad. Need a ride too.

  • Jack Argyle says:

    I was lucky enough to be in Barcelona in the spring, and saw from their manifestations what was lacking in ours…that is…urgency. If we really feel so strongly that the time has come (if only to meet the one demand concerning the 1%) then we should be shouting it from the rooftops. Not waiting for our voices to be heard in committee meetings. We are all entering this from a variety of perspectives, and possibly even hope for different outcomes. None of this movement can be co-opted by any other interest-media, corporate, or otherwise, if we all hold dear what this might mean to each of us. Adbusters may know how to sell the idea of revolution to americans (it’s the only way we’ll buy it), but we have to keep in might what kind of world we want to create on the other side, so-to-speak. This doesn’t end with the criticism of the 1%. We all know this is just the beginning…but it is still of the utmost urgency…this urgency must be expressed…even if with graceful and eloquent patience…

    • Alexander j Williamson says:

      we need to have an organized plan of action if we really feel this strong. I kinda feel like we are doing a lot of waiting around. Even once we have specific demands it will probably take a great deal of time to see them realized. The sooner the better. As it is right now, its amazing and encouraging to see the gatherings across the globe in support of change, but we may be doing a little too much preaching to the choir, while those who perpetrate these crimes against the 99% are just waiting and laughing as they shuffle more money around, once they have a specific reason to fear this movement we will actually start to effect them. Please, everyone, lets organize some realistic acheivable demands, even if on a local level. ill be the first one to lay down in the road for the cause!

  • Bruce says:

    Learn from Greece. If you see something you want down town, like in a window, it’s just a rock away. You’ve earned, don’t let the banks keep you from it. Just take. IT’s YOURS

  • 206 says:

    Read the comment under “Rideshares” forum about taxes. I think that person figured out a logical next step… send our taxes to a trustworthy congressman or congress itself instead of the IRS which remits our loot to the Fed Reserv. Diverting (or donating!) all that $ to our govt could be VERY powerful.

    Non-affiliated free thinker

  • ironboltbruce says:

    WHO ACTUALLY OWNS THE FEDERAL RESERVE AND WHY THAT MUST END
    Global Revolution 1: American Revolution 2: Day 25: Communication 1
    11 Oct 2011 (g1a2d0025c1)

    Few questions of late have been asked more frequently or answered with less transparency than this one:

    WHO OWNS THE FED?

    The domain name for the official website is FederalReserve.gov, the “.gov” extension of which suggests that the Federal Reserve System (a.k.a. the “Fed”) is part of the United States government and therefore owned by the American taxpayers. But that is not the case. As the Fed itself states…

    “The Federal Reserve System fulfills its public mission as an independent entity within government. It is not ‘owned’ by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution. As the nation’s central bank, the Federal Reserve derives its authority from the Congress of the United States. It is considered an independent central bank because its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by the Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms.”

    http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm

    Parts of that statement are true, sort of, and parts of that statement are not. Factcheck.org provides a better answer:

    “There are actually 12 different Federal Reserve Banks around the country, and they are owned by big private banks. But the banks don’t necessarily run the show. Nationally, the Federal Reserve System is led by a Board of Governors whose seven members are appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate… The concept of ‘ownership’ needs some explaining here, however. The member banks must by law invest 3 percent of their capital as stock in the Reserve Banks, and they cannot sell or trade their stock or even use that stock as collateral to borrow money. They do receive dividends of 6 percent per year from the Reserve Banks and get to elect each Reserve Bank’s board of directors. The private banks also have a voice in regulating the nation’s money supply and setting targets for short-term interest rates, but it’s a minority voice. Those decisions are made by the Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC), which has a dozen voting members, only five of whom come from the banks. The remaining seven, a voting majority, are the Fed’s Board of Governors who, as mentioned, are appointed by the president.”

    http://www.factcheck.org/2008/03/federal-reserve-bank-ownership/

    That’s a better answer, but not a totally complete or correct one. Yes, there are 12 Federal Reserve Banks, all of which are owned by private banks, and all of which must pay dividends to their owners. So contrary to what it claims, the Fed is not only privately-owned but a for-profit enterprise. And yes, there *should* be 7 members of the FOMC appointed by the government and 5 appointed by the banks. In fact, however, for unstated reasons and for some time now there have been only 5 people seated on the FRB Board of Governors, none of whom are celebrated consumer advocates…

    http://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/default.htm

    …which means government appointees do NOT outnumber bank appointees on the FOMC, and you can rest assured that the private banks DO “run the show”:

    http://tinyurl.com/6346ltz

    So the question then becomes:

    WHICH PRIVATE BANKS CONTROL THE FED?

    The Web is awash with lists and percentages on this one supported by nothing more than links that refer to other links that refer back to the original and often anonymous post. A notable exception is the work of Jake Towne, who in March of 2009 applied an admittedly imperfect but plausible engineering approach to the problem and, after some extensive research and number-crunching, concluded the following:

    “[The] top 4 banks – Bank of America (BAC), JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, and Wachovia – would control roughly 50% of the stock of the Federal Reserve Bank, and the top 10 banks, including Wells Fargo (WFC), HSBC (HBC), and the Bank of New York (BK), would control over 68% of the stock.”

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/123381-who-owns-the-fed

    So according to Jake, whoever ultimately controls these ten banks thereby also controls the Federal Reserve:

    Bank of America Corp.
    JPMorgan Chase & Co.
    CitiGroup
    Wachovia Bank (subsequently acquired by Wells Fargo)
    Wells Fargo N.A.
    US Bank
    State Street Corp.
    HSBC Bank
    Suntrust Bank
    Bank of NY Mellon

    TO RECAP… The Federal Reserve System that has used its debt-based currency to exploit our economy since 1913 is a private banking cartel consisting of 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks. Each of those banks are required to pay dividends to their shareholders, which makes them for-profit enterprises. Those shareholders are all private banks and obviously also for-profit enterprises that exist not to maintain the welfare of humankind – or even the American subset thereof – but rather to maximize the wealth of their shareholders.

    AND WHO ARE THEIR SHAREHOLDERS?

    Keep tracing your way up the ownership pyramid, and you may find some have (in)famous names like Rothschild, Rockefeller or Buffett. Others in this global elite we collectively refer to as “the 1%”. Either way, their interests align with those of the rest of us – “the 99%” – only in the same manner as those of shepherds and the sheep that they shear in good times and slaughter in bad.

    This must end. And that is why the Fed must end.

    Related Image:

    http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9514/fedmembersgraph.jpg

    Related Video:

    http://tinyurl.com/kleptocracytutorial

    ###

    I AM NOT ANONYMOUS. I AM AN AMERICAN.

    I am not just a Consumer. I am a Citizen.

    I will no longer be labeled Left or Right, Liberal or Conservative, Demopublican or Republocrat.

    I will no longer follow Puppets labeled Left or Right, Liberal or Conservative, Demopublican or Republocrat.

    I am the People. And I am coming for the Puppetmasters.

    I am part of the 99 Percent. And I demand the following:

    1. End the Fed.

    2. Reverse Citizens United.

    3. Repeal PATRIOT Act.

    4. Expose 9/11 Truth.

    5. End Profit Wars.

    6. Refund Taxpayer Trillions.

    7. Imprison the Kleptocrats.

    8. Single Term Limits.

    ###

    LABELS (A POEM OF PROTEST)

    “Democrat”, “Republican”,
    The parties of the system;
    Puppets both, for sale their votes,
    No character or wisdom.

    “Liberal”, “Conservative”,
    For change or status quo?
    Pick either one, the change is none,
    All charlatans and whores.

    Far “Left” we place the Anarchists,
    Libertarians claim far “Right”;
    Yet both decry the government:
    False continuum brought to light.

    For oil, “We” bomb their mud huts,
    Strip them bare, then offer “Aid”;
    And fake their retribution as
    Pretext – a false flag raised.

    Unarmed hundred thousands killed
    By weapons of “Defense”,
    While rights are lost for “Freedom” sake –
    On profit, all depends.

    With stroke of pen, the “Patriot” Act,
    And patriots’ gifts are taken;
    Then “Citizens United” leaves
    Our citizens forsaken.

    We protest loss of liberties,
    Put “World Wide Web” to use;
    Cloudmark Authority censors us
    For “messaging abuse”.

    They label us to finger-point,
    With labels, “They” deride us;
    Their labels keep us all at bay,
    For with labels, “They” divide us.

    IronBoltBruce

    ###

    JOIN THE GLOBAL REVOLUTION!

    Occupy Wall Street:

    http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution

    http://occupywallst.org/

    Occupy DC:

    http://www.ustream.tv/channel/october2011

    http://october2011.org/

    Occupy LA:

    http://www.livestream.com/owslosangeles

    http://occupylosangeles.org/

    Occupy Together:

    http://occupytogether.org/

    Watch these Videos:

    http://tinyurl.com/kleptocracytutorial

    Take this Pledge:

    http://wp.me/p19dS3-9o

    ###

    PUBLIC NOTICE: No talking heads on Comcast/GE’s NBC/CNBC/MSNBC speak for us. No talking heads on Murdoch’s Faux News speak for us. No talking heads at the Kleptocracy’s Compliant News Network (CNN) speak for us (no matter how dull, deliberate or subtle their delivery). No talking heads in the lamestream media speak for us, period. And neither do ANY of the 537 bought-and-paid-for Kleptocracy puppets in Washington DC who will soon be joining our legions of unemployed!

  • One Percenter says:

    I support the protesters’ right to protest, but they are misguided in their protest. It’s the Administration’s, not Wall Street’s, policies and fiscal stimulus (tax credits, bonus depreciation, etc.) that has resulted in large corporations not paying income taxes. It’s Main Street, not Wall Street, that hires workers to fill jobs. And the fact is the bulk of investment banks have moved from Wall Street to Time Square. I watch their protests and listen to their complaints, then chuckle at their idiocy. Maybe these non-working protesters should start businesses and pay taxes. That would go a lot farther in addressing their complaints than sleeping and not bathing in Gotham and other cities.

  • Alan says:

    The “Secret of OZ” watch it on you tube.